Talk:Brilliant pagoda or haze castle/Music

From Len'en Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Music Title Translation Questions[edit source]

I've been having a think about the translation of 死に至る絢爛 ~ Toxic gem, and I feel like it could be improved. The first part is currently translated as 'Brilliant Arrival of Death', but it doesn't look like 絢爛 is being used as an adjective in the original title. Instead, it looks like 死に至る is being used as an 'adjective,' in this case modifying 'brilliant.' With that in mind, I think a more appropriate translation would be 'Fatal Brilliance.' When translated in this way, the link between the first and second sections becomes more apparent: the 'fatal brilliance' is actually the 'toxic gem.'

Also, this is only a minor observation, but 常軌の外に飛ぶ羽 is currently translated as 'Feathers Flying off the Beaten Patch,' but a more commonly-used expression is 'beaten path' or 'beaten track.' Therefore, I'd like to propose that the title be changed to either of those two alternatives.

Other changes include Illusionary Resounding of Military Boots - Illusory Resounding of Military Boots. 'Illusory' is a more common spelling, and even the wiki's own spell checker says that 'illusionary' is incorrect. Also 'Over Heat Down' - 'Overheat Down' (Overheat is usually written as a single word)

Please let me know if you have any thoughts on this.

Thank you in advance for your consideration. Releska (talk) 09:54, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

In regards to your observation on Yabusame's theme, whoever transcribed my translation as "patch" instead of "path" is to blame, as I was well aware of it meaning "beaten path" when I initially translated the titles. I think I asked Tony to expand the music room comments page with my song title translations, so any typos are on him. >o>
As for Kaoru's theme, my initial translation was "Brilliant Arrival at Death". I hadn't seen "死に至る" as a compound word and instead saw 死 (death) and 至る (to arrive) as two separate things. This then made me ponder my head as to how I could put 絢爛 in there, which I was well aware was a noun. All in all, I must admit I wasn't really able to view it as liberally as you did, and I personally consider "Fatal Brilliance" a much better translation. ――Popfan (talk/contribs) 03:14, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
Oh yeah! For the Haze route stage 3 theme's name, "幻聴" actually means "auditory hallucination", i.e. "a form of hallucination that involves perceiving sounds without auditory stimulus", to quote the linked Wikipedia page directly. I feel like the term "illusory resounding" doesn't really capture the same notion, but on the other hand, "Auditory Hallucionation of Resounding Military Shoes" is kind of a mouthful for a translation. This got me thinking about terms like phantom limb, where you still feel like you have a limb, even though it's been amputated, and it made me wonder how one could use that to create a less-mouthful-sounding synonym of "auditory hallucination". I was thinking "phantom sound", but then I realized how dumb that sounds, especially now that I've actually written it out... Hmmm... maybe instead of "illusory resounding", what if we used "hallucinatory resounding" instead? That'd be an idea. Thoughts on that? ――Popfan (talk/contribs) 03:27, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for getting back to me about that. In regards to "幻聴"... could we maybe go with another liberal translation of the title? I'm okay with hallucinatory resounding, but there are other options, too. If we went with something that has the same 'image' as the Japanese title without actually using some of the words, we could go with something like 'Hearing Military Footsteps That Aren't There' or even 'Hallucinating Military Footsteps That Aren't There.' I think 'Military Footsteps' combines 'resounding' and 'military shoes' into a more effective phrase that has the added bonus of using one less word. Either way, let me know what you think! Releska (talk) 08:25, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
Not quite sure how I think about that... The whole "that aren't there" bit at the end of both your suggestions makes the name sound like a mouthful, which I'm trying to avoid (mostly for the sake of actually being able to fit the song title into the music room constraints). I feel like there's got to be a more elegant way of describing that idea, but I can't for the life of me come up with one. ――Popfan (talk/contribs) 12:09, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

For some reason, the Japanese part of Aoji's theme (青嵐) is translated as "Fresh Summer Breeze", whereas jisho.org offers the translations "mountain air" and "wind blowing through fresh verdure". I personally had it translated as "Mountain Breeze", as I wasn't even aware of the other translation until I started writing this. "Verdure" is apparently a poetic term for greenery, but despite this, I still don't really see the connection of that description and the season of summer specifically. All I really envision is a vast expanse of extraordinarily tall grass that is swaying in the wind. Perhaps someone could give me their opinion on this. ――Popfan (talk/contribs) 03:14, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Well, I looked into it, and a Japanese dictionary (Kotobank) offers the following definitions
-[Read as あお‐あらし] 初夏の青葉を揺すって吹き渡るやや強い風。せいらん [this is where 'summer' came from]
-[Read as せい‐らん] 青々とした山の気。
-[Read as せい‐らん] 青葉のころに吹きわたる風。
You've probably already seen them, so I'm just putting them there for reference.
Actually, here's a crazy idea - what if the name isn't related to spring breezes at all? Aoji's first theme was (apparently) a play on words, so perhaps this one is, too. For example, their name is 'Aoji' [which has 'ao' in it, though it uses a different kanji than 青], their power is related to water, and they're wearing blue clothes. Perhaps it's meant to be read as two separate characters: 青 and 嵐. The first one also means 'inexperienced, immature, young,' which fits Aoji since they're the youngest child.
So, basically, putting all that together, perhaps the first part should be translated as 'The Blue Storm' or something like that? I guess that's a question for JynX to answer, but that's my crazy theory in the meantime. Releska (talk) 08:25, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
I just got a reply from JynX in regards to asking about the meaning, and, well... If my Japanese skills don't fail me, he says the meaning is meant to be taken literal (i.e. "blue storm") and its deeper meaning is up to the player's interpretation.
I swear to god, he rarely ever actually answers things about Len'en in any sort of concrete detail, does he? ――Popfan (talk/contribs) 12:20, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
Okay, so my crazy theory was actually closer to the truth than I thought >_> I think it's kind of refreshing that JynX keeps so many things vague, even though it makes things harder for those who have to translate stuff from the game. Releska (talk) 19:36, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
At least he actually responds to questions his fans have. It's reassuring, being able to ask him for clarification on practically anything. ――Popfan (talk/contribs) 19:58, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Minor comment re:Toxic gem[edit source]

Just popping in real quick w/ a minor suggestion: I can easily see it being a reference to the title of the book The Sickness Unto Death, which is translated into Japanese publications as 死に至る病. (Comes up right away in a Google search for "死に至る".) "Fatal Brilliance" is okay as a literal translation, but how does "Brilliance Unto Death" sound? Gilde (talk) 20:48, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

It's pretty cool that there could be a reference to a book there - definitely worthy of at least a quick reference. It's especially relevant since Kaoru seems to use poison/mist. My only reservation with 'Brilliance Unto Death' as a title is that 'unto' seems like a very wishy-washy word, and I personally don't have a strong grasp on what it means or how to use it. I look at 'Brilliance Unto Death' and I'm not immediately sure what it means - it just looks like a few English words strung together. I feel the same way about the title of the book, too. It might have made sense 200 years ago, but language has evolved and changed since then. I think a title, especially for something like a character's theme, should be easy to understand and interpret based on a single glance. I think that, though 'Brilliance Unto Death' conveys its sources quite well, it doesn't make up for its complexity, and adopting it could cause more problems than it would solve. Releska (talk) 22:46, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
I mean... "unto" just means "toward" or "leading to", it's not an archaic word or anything? Slightly poetic, sure, but it's still used today. There's phrases like "do unto others as you would (etc.)", titles of works like "Love Unto Death", "Forward Unto Dawn", stuff like that. I really hope I'm not being rude, but one person not knowing what a word means doesn't make it out-of-date.
(Plus, 至る is a pretty formal word in the first place, so a more poetic rendering would fit.) Gilde (talk) 00:38, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
That's fine - you're not being rude or anything. I was worried that my lack of knowledge might be a common thing, but since it seems like it's something that most people will understand, I don't really have any objections. Releska (talk) 02:37, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Oh, phew. Glad to hear that. ...Although, I mean, I think it's a fairly recognizable word, but now that I think about it I dunno if other people think of it the same way. Maybe we should ask some other people as well? Gilde (talk) 03:00, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Music Comment Proofreading[edit source]

I went through and proofread the music title translations. As a whole, I didn't make too many changes, but I just wanted to list some main points here, followed by some more specific points. Please leave a reply if you have any feedback - it would be much appreciated!

Firstly, ~ is not an English punctuation mark, so I replaced it with more appropriate punctuation marks wherever it was used. It seems to be used almost exclusively in Japanese, showing that the last vowel sound is extended - based on this, it's easy to see why just copying it at the end of a word (like this~) is incorrect, as the word doesn't end in a vowel sound to begin with. Please keep this in mind for other areas.

Also, this is a general comment, but アレンジする = arrange (verb), and アレンジ = arrangement (noun). Though it seems to be a common thing to use 'arrange' as a noun (e.g. 'Len'en arrange'), this is using the word incorrectly. The correct form should be 'Len'en arrangement'. Please keep that in mind, too.

From here, I've just got some minor notes:
Stage 2 theme - ごまかしちゃう, minor changes to sentence flow, making it clear what's being covered up.

Kunimitsu’s theme - I should fix that –> I might fix that. (fits better with かもね)

Kaisen's theme - Waltz time –> with three beats in each bar (3/4 time). This is a more accurate musical term.
want to get drunk -> altered, since this seems to be referring to JynX themselves, rather than the reader.

Xeno A’s theme - settings –> backstory. 設定 is a curious word, but I think backstory is the closest English equivalent.
フィーバー –> altered, since this is most likely a reference to ‘fever time,’ which is apparently when all sorts of lights and sounds go off on a slot machine.

Title screen theme - カッコつけてます: flair –> tries to look good. I chose that because I thought it fits with the next section, which uses the negative potential form カッコつけれてない. So rather than ‘not much,’ it seems to imply that the title theme /can’t/ look good.


That's all for now. Please don't hesitate to leave a reply if you have any comments/feedback - more accurate translations benefit everybody, so I'd appreciate any other insight. Releska (talk) 01:19, 6 December 2016 (UTC)